< Who are the Women and Child in Revelation 12?
Feb. 28, 2021
Contents
Who: Listing the Possibilities
Where: Where do these things happen?
2.����� Let's Analyze like as Engineer
Estimating likelihoods for the Woman
Estimating likelihoods for the Male Child
3.����� Let's Decide like an Executive
There are various opinions of the woman and child in Revelation 12. To determine the identity of these beings, first we ought to have the right attitude. We should not be "cheering" for any particular answer, but rather want to go where the data leads.
So first let's play "detective" to solve this mystery, and then we will pretend to be "engineers" to calculate an answer, and finally we will try to come to an "executive" decision.
Like a good detective or reporter, let's not overlook any details by asking who, what, where, when, and why.
The dragon is stated to be Satan. The woman and child could be a) specific individuals, b) groups of believing people, or c) a combination.
Possibilities for specific individuals: the woman could be Mary mother of Jesus, or a future person.� The male child could be Jesus or a future person.
Possibilities for groups of believers: the woman, male, child, and other offspring could be one or a combination of believing Jews, the church, the 144,000, believers after the rapture, or something else in the future.
One-time vs. recurring: The description of Satan sweeping a third of the stars (angels) from the sky is a one-time event, but the others could be one-time events or a "type" or pattern that re-occurs in history.
�� Of course, there are many other far-fetched possibilities too, but let's look at the clues and see if we can reduce things down.
1) 12:1 Woman clothed with the sun, moon under her feet, and a garland of 12 stars. Genesis 37:9-10
2) 12:2a Woman was pregnant
3) 12:2f Great labor pains in giving birth. � Genesis 35:1-19
4) 12:3 Dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 diadems (crowns)
5) 12:4a Dragon drew down 1/3 of the stars
6) 12:4f Dragon wanted to devour the child
7) 12:5a Male child - Romans 9:5
8) 12:5a Son will rule all the nations
9) 12:5f Son will rule with an iron scepter. � Psalm 2:8-9
10) 12:5f Son caught up to God on His throne
11) 12:6a Woman fled into the wilderness
12) 12:6f They will feed the woman in the wilderness for 1,260 days (3 half years)
13) 12:7 War broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels, and the dragon and his angels
14) 12:8 Dragon and his angels lost their place in heaven
15) 12:9 Satan and his angels cast out of heaven
16) 12:9f Satan deceives the whole world
17) 12:10 Now salvation, strength, and kingdom of God and power of His Christ as come.
18) 12:11f Satan, the accuser has been cast down
19) 12:11 Overcame the devil by the blood of the Lamb, their testimony, and martyrdom
20) 12:12 Rejoicing in heaven
21) 12:12f Woe to the earth because Satan has come down
22) 12:12f Satan's remaining time is short
23) 12:13 Satan persecuted the woman
24) 12:14 Woman given two eagle's wings to fly to the wilderness. Fed for 3 half times. - Exodus 19:4
25) 12:15 Serpent spewed flood water to try to drown the woman
26) 12:16 Earth helped the woman by swallowing up the flood
27) 12:17a Satan was enraged and made war against the rest of her children
28) 12:17b The woman's other offspring are those who keep God's commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
These "movies" are signs in heaven, but they show events that go between heaven and earth.
Scripture does not directly say, but it gives some clues.
Before the Fall: If the tail sweeping away a third of the stars refers to angels falling and becoming demons, then that is a flashback.
Time of Christ: But the dragon wanting to devour the child would be in the past if the child was Jesus or the church.
Future: The dragon having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns is not used of Satan until Revelation. The dragon's time being short also sounds like the future. The three and a half years in 12:14 also indicates a future event, such as the last half of the tribulation.
Unknown: Is the war in heaven a past event, and Satan's time was short since then, or is it a future attempted invasion of heaven?
The answer: This chapter is a panorama of history.
We are given three motives in this chapter.
Satan tries to attack the woman because he cannot attack the child. (Rev 12:4f-6)
Satan made war on the rest of her offspring since he cannot attack the woman. (Rev 12:16-17)
Satan is full of wrath because his time is short. (Rev 12:12f)
Do we know which possibilities are the most likely? Let ask the engineer.
Let's examine the clues of the woman and child and attempt to weight them to see which are more likely. For each clue we will give a "3" if they match up, "1" is they could match up, "0" means not relevant to the specific view, and "-3" if they fail at matching up.
The woman is Rachel: total: -29. 1:0, 2:3, 3:3; 4:0, 5:0, 6:0, 7:3, 8:0, 9:-3, 10:-3, 11:-3, 12:-3, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:-3, 18:0, 19:-3, 20:0, 21:-3, 22:-3, 23:-3, 24:-3, 25:-3, 26:-3, 27:3, 28:1
Conclusion Even though two things match well, there is no match for the other 26 things. This definitely is not Rachel.
The woman is Jewish Israel (both past and future): Total: 17. 1:3 (Gen 37:9-10), 2:1, 3:3 (giving birth, Rachel in Gen 35:1-19); 4:0, 5:0, 6:1, 7:3 (Rom 9:5), 8:0, 9:0, 10:0, 11:3 (the Exodus), 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:0, 18:0, 19:0, 20:0, 21:3, 22:0, 23:3, 24:-3, 25:-3, 26:-3, 27:3; 28:3
Conclusion: saying the woman is Israel sort of matches. However, this leads to the question of how the dragon cannot fight against her but fights against her offspring, unless it is Gentile Christians after the rapture.
The woman is Jewish Israel plus the church: Total: 14. Same as Jewish Israel.
The woman is Mary: Total: 3. 1:1, 2:3, 3:1; 4:0; 5:0, 6:0, 7:0, 8:0, 9:0, 10:0, 11:3 (Egypt), 12:1, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:1, 18:0, 19:1, 20:0, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:-3, 25:-3, 26:-3, 27:0, 28:1
The woman is the Church, not Israel: Total 3. 1:1, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:0, 7:0, 8:0, 9:0, 10:0, 11:-3, 12:-3, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:3; 18:0, 18:0, 20:1 (Hebrews), 21:0; 22:0; 23:3; 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:0; 28:1
The woman is still in the future: Total: 14. 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:0, 5:0, 6:0, 7:1, 8:0, 9:0, 10:0, 11:1, 12:1, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16.0, 17:1, 18:0, 19:1, 20:1, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:1, 25:1; 26:1, 27:1, 28:1
Conclusion: saying the woman is in the future sort of matches. However, it is very strange that there are so many details partially match existing possibilities.
The woman is a type/pattern of Israel/Mary/Church: Total 50. 1:3, 2:3, 3:3, 4:0, 5:0, 6:3 (Herod in Mt 2:16, Hebrew midwives), 7:3, 8:3, 9:3, 10:3 (ascension, rapture), 11:3, 12:3, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:3, 18:0, 19:3, 20:3, 21:0; 22:0, 23:3, 24:3, 25:3, 26:-3, 27:3, 28:1
The male child is Jesus: Total 24. 1:0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:0, 7:3; 8:3, 9:3, 10:3 (Psalm 2), 11:0, 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:3, 18:3, 19:3, 20:3, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:0, 28:0
The male child is the Church: Total 10. 1:0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:3, 7:3 (all sons in Christ Jesus), 8:3 (Rev 2:26); 9:3 (Rev 2:27), 10:3 (ascension), 11:0, 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:3, 18:0, 19:0, 20:1, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:-3, 28:-3
The male child is believers after the rapture: Total -6, 1:0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:3, 7:-3, 8:-3, 9:-3, 10:-3, 11:0, 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:0, 18:0, 19:3, 20:3, 21:3, 22:0, 23:0, 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:-3; 28:-3.
The male child still in the future: Total 9, 1:0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:3, 7:3, 8:1, 9:1, 10:1, 11:0, 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:-3, 18:0, 19:0, 20:1, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:1; 28:1.
The male child is a type/pattern of Jesus/the Church: Total 24. 1:0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:0, 5:0, 6:0, 7:3; 8:3, 9:3, 10:3 (Psalm 2, rapture), 11:0, 12:0, 13:0, 14:0, 15:0, 16:0, 17:3, 18:3, 19:3, 20:3, 21:0, 22:0, 23:0, 24:0, 25:0, 26:0, 27:0, 28:0
If the woman is just Mary, what about the eagle's winds, the flood, and 1,260 days?
If the woman is, at least in part, the church, then why is the church there during the 1,260 days?
If the woman is the 144,000, then how did these men give birth to a child in Revelation 12:5?
If the child is all believers, then who are the other offspring in Revelation 12:17?
Sorting the pairs of combinations of woman and child, from highest or lowest, we have:
1. Type/pattern of Israel/Mary/Church and Church/Jesus. Score: 50 + 24 = 74
2. Only Israel and only Jesus. Score: 17 + 24 = 41
3. Only Mary and only Jesus. Score: 3 + 24 = 27
5. Only Israel and only the Church. Score: 17 + 10 = 27
4. Woman and child still in the future (non-falsifiable). Score: 14 + 9 = 23
6. Only Mary and only the Church. Score: 3 + 10 = 13
7. Only the Church and only believers after the rapture. Score: 3 -6 = -3
The estimation technique is might not have any better precision than +/- 9.
So after a detailed mathematical analysis, do we know what is the most likely the final answer? Let's ask the executive for a decision.
First off, the third through the fifth options all fit some of the data, but in each case other pieces of data do not seem very plausible. None of them look significantly more correct than any of the others. Only the first two possibilities stand out.
Both of the top two views agree that the woman is at least Israel (including Mary), and the child is at least Jesus, and that these things happened at least one time. So everything hinges on whether everything in Revelation 12 being a one-time event or is it a recurring pattern.
Many things in scripture are both. For example, the effects of the four horsemen, on a more limited scale, were listed as far back as Jeremiah, but the fulfillment is not until Revelation. As a second example, things similar to the trumpets and vials have happened a number of times, on a limited scale, but the real fulfillment is yet in the future. Third, Matthew shows us that just as the Israel had Rachel weeping for her children, Israel going down to Egypt, those were types or parallels of Jesus doing the same. So, as a comet has a tail, a one-time fulfillment in scripture does not necessarily preclude a "tail" of patterns and types.
Here are what other writers say.
Seven writers, mostly dispensational ones, say that the woman is [Jewish] Israel. The Bible Knowledge Commentary : New Testament p.957, Revelation 8-22 An Exegetical Commentary by Robert L. Thomas p.120, W.A. Criswell's Expository Sermons on Revelation p.67-69, Thomas L. Constable's Notes on Revelation 2020 edition, the Believer's Bible Commentary p.2369, and The New Unger's Bible Dictionary p.1079. The Expositor's Greek New Testament p.424 says it is true Israel, the Zion of God.
Four writers mention the view more common in covenant theology, that this chapter as symbolic or a blend, such as The Expositor's Bible Commentary vol.12 p.513-514, the Evangelical Commentary on the Bible p.1216, and The New Geneva Study Bible p.2022. The New International Bible Commentary p.1614,1615 says this is the true Israel, including the Palestinian church, but does not see Mary here.
But you can lean towards either dispensationalism or covenant theology and take the other view on Revelation 12 too.